O’Brien says EC should reply for firing that killed 4, clarifies get together’s place on the insider-outsider debate, asks why Abhishek Banerjee has not been arrested if expenses towards him true, and says events now want males like Prashant Kishor. The session was moderated by Particular Correspondent Dipankar Ghose.
DIPANKAR GHOSE: Six of eight phases of polling are carried out in West Bengal. The place do you assume this election stands proper now?
We’ve got been centered on our marketing campaign. We’re saying that within the final 10 years, the Mamata Banerjee authorities has delivered on many parameters — well being, schooling, street, infrastructure, electrical energy, employment, IT, girls’s security. We’re additionally saying that within the final 10 years, we haven’t carried out all of it. On the opposite facet, you’ve the BJP. You choose them on the guarantees made and the guarantees they’ve stored. That is the fundamental proposition. The BJP needs to make feedback, bask in bluster and large speak and play thoughts video games. We haven’t been into that. The underside line is in case you are preventing the world’s most damaging political power…it’s a must to acknowledge that they’ve the cash. And I dare say that they discovered a brand new ally. We all the time knew it was a hidden ally, however within the final two weeks the extraordinarily compromised Election Fee (EC) has come out overtly as their ally.
DIPANKAR GHOSE: Whilst you attacked the Prime Minister for holding rallies even because the Covid-19 caseload was rising, the Trinamool additionally wasn’t very immediate in shutting down its rallies and campaigns.
We’ve got been interesting to the umpire, the Election Fee, for a very long time. Please take a look at the press convention by Mamata Banerjee after the election schedule was introduced. We mentioned that you’re evaluating the scenario now to 2016 (for holding polling in eight phases). In 2016, there have been tons of of deaths attributable to insurgents, now that quantity is zero. And the second cause we gave for (not holding the polls over eight phases) was the scenario of the pandemic. So now we have been very, very constant.
Going again to the Election Fee, by the best way, now we have written hundreds of letters to them and bodily delivered 108 letters. What have we been saying? Change the foundations, change the foundations, change the foundations! However the Election Fee didn’t act. The one time they acted was two hours after Mr Modi’s announcement… There’s no fig leaf of pretence anymore. I’ve a number of issues to say in regards to the EC which I’ll say after Might 2… What they are saying inside these closed-door conferences, it’s pathetic. And by the best way, how come this election is being performed with two of the three ECs. Everyone knew the third individual was going to retire? Perhaps Amit Shah is the third EC. He may as effectively come out and do it overtly… It’s a really dangerous scenario. So far as the BJP goes, it’s their umpire, their bat, their ball, their pitch… However we nonetheless must play the match, that’s the reason we are saying ‘match on (Khela Hobe)’, what can we do?
SANTANU CHOWDHURY: The Trinamool all the time refers back to the BJP because the vacationer gang and outsiders in Bengal. Are you able to elaborate? Additionally, why is caste taking part in such an enormous function within the polls this time?
Let me reply your second query (on caste) first. Politics in Bengal has by no means seen the type of divide that the BJP is attempting to play up desperately in typical Modi-Shah mode. They’ll preserve taking part in it up however we nonetheless consider that folks is not going to purchase it.
Now on to the primary half, what will we imply by outsider? As a result of in any other case this whole debate may be misconstrued. What will we imply by outsider, insider? Whether or not your identify is Agarwal, Gupta, D’Souza, Sharma, Roy Choudhry, Jha, you aren’t an outsider. Individuals who come right here, stay right here, work right here, have a ration card right here… Outsiders are those that just like the BJP have come into Bengal two months in the past to suck the state for votes. There’s a clear distinction between outsider-insider in Bengal. Shouldn’t I name Amit Shah an outsider when he says Rabindranath Tagore was born in Shantiniketan? Shouldn’t I name the BJP an outsider once they go and garland the unsuitable statue of Birsa Munda? It doesn’t work… That’s the distinction between outsiders and folks from Bengal. So that they (the BJP) will try to confuse the argument, however we’re very clear.
We’re in a really constructive marketing campaign… We’re saying speak to us about farmers. You promised Mr Prime Minister that you’ll double farmers’ earnings by 2022. On the present charge, that’s not going to occur earlier than 2028. In 2011, Mamata Banerjee mentioned she is going to double farmers’ earnings. She didn’t double farmers’ earnings in 10 years, it has truly tripled… Speak to us about Kanyashree (an initiative of the state authorities to enhance life and standing of women), which has received the United Nations award… Our finances for the scheme is Rs 9,400 crore. What’s the good thing about that? It has introduced down early marriage figures, improved toddler mortality charge… Speak to us about street building, MSMEs… That’s Bengal. Speak to us in regards to the 95 lakh new households electrified since 2011… Speak to us about these, as a substitute of digressing and bringing Pakistan into the narrative or beginning another divisive narrative. That’s not going to work… They’ll’t ship any of their MPs to debate us as a result of 5 of their MPs have been demoted to struggle MLA elections in West Bengal…
MANOJ C G: Can the BJP’s rise within the state solely be attributed to the truth that they’ve extra funds? The BJP had round 10% of the votes and three seats within the final Meeting elections, and within the 2019 Lok Sabha polls they went on to win 18 seats, accounting for almost 40% vote share.
Let me offer you some information. The CPM vote share dropped from 30% to 7% within the final election, and the Congress’s vote share dropped from 10% to five%. So there may be an opposition area there. The Trinamool Congress didn’t drop its vote share. The Trinamool’s vote share went up by 2%… At this time, there may be sufficient proof on the bottom that the Left entrance, the CPI(M) is telling individuals to vote for the BJP. The Opposition area has gone to the BJP.
MANOJ C G: However there are different points as effectively, together with anti-incumbency towards your authorities and your MLAs on the native stage, corruption, minimize cash, and perceived resentment towards appeasement insurance policies. These have additionally performed a job within the rise of the BJP within the state.
There needs to be anti-incumbency. There’s Covid, we additionally had Cyclone Amphan final yr, which was the primary setback in Bengal. We’ve got to acknowledge that. In fact there will likely be anti-incumbency; after 10 years in authorities you’ll have to change your MLAs.
I all the time say who’s speaking about corruption. If the Trinamool has small-time retail corruption down the road, the BJP has company, wholesale corruption. They’re probably the most corrupt political get together on the planet. And this isn’t rhetorical. Take a look at the CAG experiences from the final one-two years. Take a look at electoral bonds… For each Rs 100 given on electoral bonds, the BJP will get Rs 60. Take a look at PM-CARES. They do it in a wholesale means. They’re very trendy about it. Take a look at the best way they management surrogate media and digital platforms. Take a look at the best way it’s managed, and you might be speaking of corruption.
DIPANKAR GHOSE: The alleged violence by Trinamool staff has additionally added to the anti-incumbency…
If the whole lot was so unsuitable in regards to the Trinamool Congress, then how come our get together’s ministers have been getting used within the BJP within the washer format?… Suvendu Adhikari, Mukul Roy have all of the sudden all turn into angels… You might have run them by way of the washer… You’re taking all of them, you shut the instances down and also you throw corruption expenses at us… You make all these accusations towards Abhishek Banerjee… All businesses are yours — the CBI, ED. Put forth the proof and arrest him… However you may’t do this. You might be solely doing this to your 9 pm tv channel exhibits… After 4 days, it would all go away.
You speak about dynasty. What’s dynasty? Who’s your Nandigram candidate? His father is an MP, his brother is an MP, his elder brother is a councillor and his sister-in-law can also be a councillor. All these guys are dynasts. Piyush Goyal will not be a dynast? Anurag Thakur will not be a dynast? I’ve made an inventory of 37, they’re all dynasts… What’s Jay Shah’s contribution to cricket? No person talks about it…
ATRI MITRA: In villages affected by Cyclone Amphan, there have been accusations of corruption towards many panchayat leaders. How are you assuring these sections?
That’s the place we would have liked to do some self-assessment. We did it and bought some suggestions. That’s the reason six-eight months earlier than the polls we began the door-to-door ‘Duare Sarkar’ outreach programme, saying that we’re not good. That’s the course correction. You must have the humility to course appropriate. You may’t have the hubris of a Modi who introduced demonetisation and didn’t have the humility to course appropriate… However that doesn’t imply that each single individual down the road is corrupt.
RITIKA CHOPRA: Ballot strategist Prashant Kishor has mentioned that he doesn’t agree with the assault on EVMs. What’s your response to that? He additionally mentioned that Narendra Modi is a well-liked chief on the bottom. Do you agree together with his evaluation?
I’m a believer of the truth that to struggle elections at this time, political events want Pashant Kishor and Indian Political Motion Committee (I-PAC). The MPs and political leaders who assume I-PAC is the competitor, they’re old style, they’re blind. They don’t know the way elections work. I-PAC is a crucial useful resource and Prashant is a superb thoughts to have in a workforce. Quantity two, Modi is a well-liked chief. Do you assume Hitler was not a preferred chief? He (Kishor) mentioned nothing controversial. His view on EVMs is his view, my get together’s view is a distinct view. That’s completely wonderful.
We don’t must agree on the whole lot… We’re very suspicious that the Election Fee is bought out. I made a mistake by calling the EC ‘extraordinarily compromised’. They’re a totally sold-out physique. It is vitally, very unhappy.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Basically there’s a sense that the Trinamool has gone all out on minority appeasement. There appears to be some latent anger amongst Bengali Hindus in West Bengal relating to the matter…
Bengali Hindus are indignant with the Trinamool you say. Minorities account for 27% of the votes in Bengal. How come we bought 45% of the votes within the Lok Sabha elections? That is all a cock-and-bull mindset that Bengali Hindus vote for the BJP and someone else votes for the Trinamool… Mamata Banerjee recites the Chandi Path within the privateness of a room, however when she recites it publicly you say she is attempting to appease… Faith is personal, festivals are for everybody. It isn’t my quote however it is extremely Calcutta. It’s very Bengal. There’s a Jewish Bakery known as Nahoum in Kolkata. The Christmas truffles on the store are baked by Muslim bakers, and you’ll see Bengali Hindus queuing as much as purchase the cake. That’s the Bengal we all know. This isn’t Amit Shah’s Bengal, this isn’t Modi’s Bengal. Derek O’Brien is a minuscule minority of a minority. I don’t symbolize an Anglo-Indian nominated seat. I’m an elected member of the Rajya Sabha. It might solely occur in Bengal with Mamata Banerjee.
SANTANU CHOWDHURY: Does the Trinamool have a plan in place to handle the Covid-19 disaster if it returns to energy?
The very first thing we’ll do is implement free vaccination from Might 2. When the March 2020 lockdown announcement occurred, no person was taken into confidence — neither Parliament nor the state. It’s solely later that Modi and Shah realised that the states did all of the soiled work when it got here to implementation. Earlier, they have been fast to take the credit score… Overconfidence, vanity, hubris… Now it’s again to what the states can do. (In case of the TMC) at the least you already know who will implement the insurance policies. Who will implement it for the BJP? Who’s their CM candidate?… The query of the BJP successful Bengal doesn’t come up. They’ve overvalued this election by an unlimited proportion.
SWEETY MISHRA: Children in Bengal really feel that the state hasn’t supplied them a lot.
Notion constructing is an space the place we will do higher. For instance, IT exports in Bengal went up by 175 per cent within the final 10 years. We should get this throughout. There are 1,500 corporations now in Bengal. In 2011, there have been 490 corporations. There have been 90,000 IT professionals in 2011. Now, there are nearly 2,20,000 IT professionals…
DIPANKAR GHOSE: Has non secular polarisation elevated on the bottom in Bengal?
There could also be three causes for that. The primary cause is that there’s an Opposition vacuum created after the collapse of the Left and the non-existence of the Congress. That needs to be occupied.
Quantity two, the BJP can not compete on governance and growth, in order that they need to write a brand new story for Bengal, which is a divisive, polarised one. There isn’t any doubt about it. And the third cause is that they run a totally unfavorable marketing campaign. You need to recruit, you’ll recruit anyone, there isn’t a natural progress there…
There are three BJPs in Bengal. One is the ‘BJP Authentic’, which is Dilip Ghosh’s BJP… Then there’s a ‘BJP B’, which has those that left the Trinamool Congress 5 years in the past. And the third one is ‘BJP Tatkal’, manufactured from those that joined the get together within the final three-four months for numerous causes… After the outcomes on Might 2, when the Trinamool wins, these three BJPs can not perform collectively… I’m saying this as a scholar of politics.
MANOJ CG: Throughout the 2018 panchayat elections, when the Trinamool candidates have been uncontested in 30% of the seats, it was the Opposition that had attacked the State Election Fee for his or her candidates not with the ability to file nominations…
We’ve got been a political get together since 1998… You may’t level out a single political get together which hasn’t made errors. Whenever you introspect… in fact, the 2018 (panchayat polls) didn’t go effectively for us. We may have carried out that in another way….
All events make errors, even larger errors. However belief Didi, she is the captain of the ship. That’s the reason we’re quietly assured. When there are skilled surveys (performed) by the TMC, the Chief Minister’s scores are proper up there. With the Chief Minister’s ranking hovering round 50 per cent, you may actually take a look at these numbers and say the CM’s personal credibility is nice. And that’s what will see us by way of ultimately.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: If the Trinamool loses the election on Might 2, will you settle for the decision or blame EVMs and the EC for the outcomes?
Why ought to I permit a unfavorable thought to return to my thoughts? Why ought to I permit a hypothetical query? Why ought to I permit a query when my knowledge and suggestions from the bottom says we’re comfortably forward of the BJP in comparison with 2019. We’re successful this election, Mamata Banerjee would be the chief minister for the third time in a row. The 2 turncoat ministers from the TMC will likely be defeated. And the Union Minister can even lose within the polls.
…Throughout the firing in Sitalkuchi in Cooch Behar, 4 individuals died. It doesn’t matter what the result’s on Might 2, the EC, Amit Shah or whoever it’s, needs to be held accountable. The place is the video footage? The place are the two,000 individuals who got here round and did all these barbaric acts (attacked the safety forces)? The place is the video footage of snatching of weapons? It doesn’t matter what occurs on Might 2, why did you shoot to kill? Why didn’t you shoot waist downwards? These are the large questions which the EC has to reply. One of many human tragedies of this election is that the EC was capturing to kill. We’ll take this up from the afternoon of Might 2.
The EC difficulty is not going to cease as a result of it’s not in regards to the EC. It’s about an establishment… No matter the consequence, I’ll truly disclose official conversations between the EC and the Trinamool. I’m informed that these conversations have been recorded. If I can entry these conversations, I have to expose it.